Manufacturer :- Firow Custom built Exclusively for Gwyn Lewis 4×4 to our own very specific specifications. Not to be confused with other similar looking propshafts available elsewhere.
Part Number :- GL-DC-ULTRA-EXT-665, PUMA Front Double Cardan ULTRA EXTREME Wide Angle HD 1310 Prop Shaft
Working length :- 700mm + – 8mm
Fits :- Defender 90/110/130 Puma TDCi 2.4 & 2.2, 2007 on Front Propshaft.
Weight :- 13.6KG
These are our new style Double Cardan with the slider on the double cardan end, the double cardan end goes up to the gearbox / transfer box, with these the slider is out of the mud and water.
This fits straight onto a Defender style transfer box flange you will not require a Discovery 2 Transfer Box Flange to fit this one
These EXTRA HEAVY DUTY Double Cardan wide angle propshafts are custom made for us to our own specification. This version has the superior Italian joint unit and has no need for a new output flange, the double cardan end is compatible with the Land Rover Defender transfer box output flange, as you can see in the pictures the slider is also on the double cardan end so no mud and water to get into the slider.
For those looking for our strongest prop shafts please see more info on our 2020 MEGA props HERE. These are for extreme use off roaders with large aggressive tyres and upgraded driveline.
These propshafts are made to a very high standard, please don’t compare these to cheap import ones.
Fitting advice :-
Please note these propshafts have heavy duty round flanges, when fitting make sure you clean up the diff and gearbox flange faces as you may have taken a square type flange off and the new round flange does not want to sit on top of dirt or rust. Brushing some grease on to flange faces after will help stop rust.
The Slider goes to your transfer box flanges, for a Double Cardan prop the DC end goes to the front transfer box flange.
You must ensure all UJs and the slider are fully greased on fitment and are regularly greased during use.
We Grease all UJ’s and sliders here during final checks but sliders can not be filled with grease until a prop is fitted, you will need to fill the slider with grease.
This propshaft has 3 fully greaseable UJs, and the slider is also greaseable on these.
Why Fit a Double Cardan propshaft
A Double Cardan propshaft is used mainly to reduce propshaft vibrations on lifted vehicles where running angles have become steeper.
The Double Cardan end is fitted to the gearbox as this is normally the steepest angle.
Although these propshafts are 30/40 degree wide angle, no propshaft should be run with a steeper angle of 10 degree as this causes premature universal joint wear, especially when used on road as they over heat.
By fitting a Double Cardan propshaft you have 2 universal joints at the Double Cardan end which reduces the joint angle by 1/2 making them last longer compared to a single joint on a normal propshaft.
Between the 2 joints there is a ball cup that holds the 2 joints together, again on big lifts these can wear out quicker.
There is no disadvantage in fitting a Double Cardan propshaft, its only that quality ones like these are double the price of a quality wide angle propshaft and re building the double cardan end is not easy to do.
If you require a custom length, please contact us with measurements so we can get one made, have a look at the last picture to help you measure your propshaft length.
Please Note:- Puma TDCI Defenders are more prone to suffer from propshaft vibration issues due to the angle that the engine and transmission is mounted, the engine is mounted high with the transfer box mounted low, this angle makes propshaft universal joints work at steeper angles then previous generations of Defenders.
The engine is mounted high to clear the front axle, this increases front propshaft working angles, the whole transmission is moved back so that the gear sticks can come up in front of the dash, this does increase the length of the front propshaft and so help shallow back out the angle that it runs through, on a 90 though this makes the rear propshaft short so it also runs at a steeper angle, this is why the transfer box was lowered to help shallow out the angle that it runs through.
These bad angles are at standard height, after a suspension lift they only become worse.
GKN had massive problems producing propshafts for Land Rover that would cope with this problem which is why all standard front and 90 rear props on a Puma’s are so high spec, 110/130 standard rear props are the same sort of spec as older generations of Defender.
Vibration problems are very common with Puma TDCI Defenders and can be very difficult to solve. This is a vehicle problem resulting from the less than ideal position that the Puma engine and transmission is mounted.
A Double Cardan propshaft is not a true cure to any vibration problems, it can hide problems caused by steep UJ running angles. In most cases a quality Double Cardan propshaft will reduce propshaft vibrations to the point that they are not noticed, it can eliminate them completely but in some cases the best you can achieve is a reduction to a more tolerable level.
To reduce likely hood of vibration problems with Puma Defenders we would recommend lifting up to 1” rather than 2”, that said it is not unknown for even lowered Defenders to suffer from vibration issues, it is all down to UJ working angles and how the different working angles at each end of the prop affects the overall harmonics of the shaft.
UJs do not turn at a constant velocity, as they turn they speed up and slow down, the steeper the working angle the faster they have to speed up and slow down, this speed change is where vibrations come from.
Please be aware that solving propshaft vibrations on Pumas can be very difficult, steep propshaft universal joint angles cause vibration issues.
- Double Cardon propshafts are used to help reduce propshaft vibrations on lifted vehicles, especially after caster correction.
- Slip joint is at the Double Cardan end out of the mud and water.
- 30 degree wide angle to prevent the propshaft binding up on long travel suspension.
- 40 degree wide angle on the Double Cardan end.
- Heavy Duty Round Flange Face (not the old square type), that bolts to gearbox and diff 79.4mm PCD.
- This version has the superior Italian Double Cardon end with slip joint built into the D/C end (both these joints are Cap Greased)
- Higher torque capacity than a standard Land Rover propshaft, using 60mm heavy duty high torque tube.
- Td5 Discovery 2 transfer box flange is not required to fit this one.
- Heavy duty 1310 series Universal Joints (27mm x 81.8mm) with nylon thrust washers and metal/rubber seals, the nylon thrust washers also has a cross in them to allow grease to get to each cup when greasing them.
- Rilsan coated spline for smother operation and helps eliminate vibrations.
- Upgraded involute spline configuration with 18 splines that is also GREASEABLE which is a feature only found on our propshafts.
- Internally plug welded to hold grease in the slider.
- Double seal arrangement on the slip assembly, with 110mm of movement and full spline contact on the male and female slider to help with long travel suspension.
- Phased when required to reduce vibrations.
- All prop shafts come with a tube of k48 grease.
Propshaft vibrations on lifted vehicles can be a problem. Lifts of 2” and above (1” with Puma TDCI) start to steepen propshaft Universal Joint working angles to the point where vibration problems can become an issue.
Caster Correction also steepens UJ working angles so can bring on more vibration problems.
A classic scenario where you will feel worst vibrations is on overrun, around 50mph where you are not accelerating or engine braking, the whole transmission is “slack” on overrun.
The centre diff inside the transferbox can “rattle” around at this point. There are only supporting bearings at the front and rear output flanges of a transfer box, the two halves of the output shafts and the centre diff just “float” in the middle of the transferbox, these are all unbalanced parts and can themselves be the cause of transmission vibrations.
A Double Cardan propshaft is often successful in helping to solve these vibration problems but it is not a true cure, it can hide the problem to the point where it is not noticed or becomes reduced enough that it can be tolerated.
A Double Cardan propshaft has two UJs at the Double Cardan end, between the 2 joints there is a ball and cup that holds the 2 joints together, this is positioned at the front transferbox flange (where the steepest working angle is on all Land Rovers) These two UJs together halve the angle felt at the transferbox, halving that angle helps to reduce the vibration problem caused by steep running angles.
A Wide Angle propshaft alone is not always enough to help with vibration problems, a good quality Wide Angle prop can be enough to solve some vibration problems but the UJ’s are still working at the same angles as a standard prop, it is steep running angles that cause vibrations.
A Wide Angle propshaft can turn through a wider angle before yokes bind, this is to accommodate long travel suspension movements (axle drop out) off road, it does not mean that the propshaft can be run at steep angles on road at road speeds (big suspension lifts). UJ’s will wear quicker when run at steep angles. Ideally for road work UJ’s should be running between 2 to 10 degrees, beyond 10 degrees quicker wear and vibrations can become an issue.
Properly spec’d Wide Angle and Double Cardan propshafts should be made with long slip sliders, this is to accommodate long travel suspension, you need more slip with increased ride height and axle drop. A propshaft spacer should NEVER be used for any reason. By adding a spacer to close up a slider after a lift or to allow for more axle drop you are in fact increasing the closed length of the propshaft, off road your axles not only need to move downwards they also need to move upwards, using a spacer to close up a slider that is too short will mean your propshaft can not close up enough to fit in the space between tranferbox and diff flanges, you will cause damage to your drive line if your propshaft can not close up enough.
To reduce likely hood of vibration problems we would recommend not lifting more than 2” (1” with Puma TDCI), that said it is not unknown for even lowered Defenders to suffer from vibration issues, it is all down to UJ working angles and how the different working angles at each end of the propshaft affects the overall harmonics of the shaft.
UJs do not turn at a content velocity, as they turn they speed up and slow down, the steeper the working angle the faster they have to speed up and slow down, this speed change is where vibrations come from.
Please note that propshaft UJ`s on lifted vehicles are under more strain and require REGULAR GREASING to prolong there life, no propshaft should be used for long periods of time with a steeper running angle of more than 10 degree, anything above this angle used for long journeys will cause the UJs to over heat and cause premature wear, this is always a problem on Land Rovers especially with suspension lifts above 2 inches, as once you lift the suspension the propshaft angle steepens, even caster correction makes the propshaft angle steeper.
We can also make non standard custom length props.
If you are unsure what you need please contact me.